When I walked into Raymond Leppard's office on the second floor of the new Symphony Centre on East Washington Street, I was witness to the very beginnings of the room's being cleared out: The 14-year, 73-year-old Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra music director was preparing to exit — for good. That morning, the young Dutch conductor, Lawrence Renes, 31, had just finished a rehearsal for his ISO podium debut as a guest conductor the next morning at the season's final Coffee concert. Renes, escorted by ISO president Richard Hoffert, stopped in so that Hoffert could introduce the two conductors — while I was interviewing Leppard. For me, that seemed to symbolize the old-making-way-for-youth change that is a constant in human affairs.

Lest anyone get an incorrect impression here, let me point out that Leppard is 14 years older than when I first interviewed him in the winter of 1987 at his "room" in the Columbia Club, before he assumed the ISO music directorship the following September. And he looks older, as does yours truly. But Leppard is as sharp-witted as ever. He maintains a vitality no doubt aided by daily workouts on his home treadmill — and possibly by his "healthful" intake of red wine, so much in the news these days as a potential coronary-artery disease inhibitor. He also does what he enjoys most, and gets well-paid for: conducting, arranging and otherwise immersing himself in music, which he will continue to do after his retirement and subsequent appointment as ISO conductor laureate.

In these final days, praise and adulation have been heaped on Leppard, perhaps enough to make him a bit uncomfortable. On a recent radio program, as well as in much of the press, the degree of fawning over him has seemed to me excessive. He's the first to admit that he’s leaving the orchestra far from a state of perfection.

Still, Leppard's accomplishments have been considerable and it’s apparent that he feels a certain satisfaction with what has occurred during his reign.

NUVO: Given that 14 years is a long time with one orchestra, could you say that your experience with this orchestra — your first in the music director role with an American ensemble — has, in turn, changed you or your view in any way, as regards repertoire choices, interaction with the players, the administration, your audience expectations?

LEPPARD: I think I've learned a lot more about the American system, that, on the whole, I still think I admire it more than any other system of making a symphony orchestra work within its society. When the system works, it's more efficient and more effective than the European state-aided one.

NUVO: David Zinman went from Baltimore Symphony music director to the Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra music director. Could you see yourself taking on a European orchestra after so many years with an American one — or could you have at, say, an earlier age? In what way is being a European music director different from an American one? What are the plusses and minuses?

LEPPARD: Well, I did, in fact, have the BBC Symphony

rchestra in Manchester for seven years. And, no, I would not go back to taking on a European orchestra with all the "anonymous" funding and the occasionally pernicious influences that state-run music lends itself to. I don't really think I want, at this moment, to take on another orchestra altogether. I think I'd rather free-lance for a while. But I did have the BBC Symphony, and I enjoyed that very much. I still admire more the American system — that is, when it works. And I suppose over the years I've come to learn a good deal more about the American management, its needs for endowment and all those things; that [knowledge] has certainly increased. Apart from peripheral irritations or concerns, I think it's increased my admiration for the system.

NUVO: Would you say politics has to do with some of what you don't like over there?

LEPPARD: It always does. You know how [our] national endowment has been a paltry amount?

NUVO: And Congress keeps talking about abolishing it …

LEPPARD: Absolutely, and I think it should … because it isn't really necessary. There's still sufficient private funding or corporate funding to make a symphony orchestra work in its place. It's very different from England because of all the symphony orchestras in London. I mean there are five of them — who are all playing their hearts out … Well it's silly: London doesn't need five symphony orchestras. Whereas there's only one orchestra — if there's one at all in a city in America. The New York Philharmonic is all there is there. The same with Chicago, Boston and so forth.

NUVO: Would you say that our American endowments are more corporate in nature than private?

LEPPARD: It think it's hard to say. There is an immense amount of private money in America. And the tradition of giving, it seems to me, has not waned — at least in recent times. Perhaps it's not on the huge scale that it once was, with the Rockefellers, though I'm sure they still give a lot of money to various projects. But corporate financing is a very important element. Most often, an orchestra depends on a corporation in the city that it belongs to.

NUVO: So is what you object to in Europe that government bureaucrats determine the worth of music organizations in order to fix the grant amounts?

LEPPARD: Of course they do — that's right — and it's a hopeless system.

NUVO: Tell me a little more about your decision to stay in Indianapolis. Was it a difficult one, or, as you've previously stated in other contexts, was it "apparent" what you should do?

LEPPARD: The same thing has happened. It's been a gradual process. When I first came here … as you know when we first met, I had a room in the Columbia Club. Then I rented a house [on New York Street], while I still had a big house in Connecticut. Indeed, I used to think of Connecticut as my "escape hole," if I wanted to get away from Indianapolis, or as a refuge from long guest tours. But increasingly, I didn't want to get away from Indianapolis ... with the more I got involved with the orchestra and with the society here and the people here … the more I found myself being here. And that's increased; now, some of my closest friends live in Indianapolis. I now have a very nice house and am very happily situated. I had the house rebuilt, in fact, turned it back to front. Jonathon Hess did it, you know ... he also did the Eiteljorg Museum and the Children's Museum's Cinedome. Brilliant architect ... and he and his wife have become very close friends [with me]. So I'm very happy — and you can get almost anywhere, as far as you can get anywhere with airplanes.

NUVO: I'm also assuming the "friends" you're speaking of aren't primarily in the symphony organization.

LEPPARD: No. I'm talking about the "world of Indianapolis." There is, for example, Lilly, which is a dominating influence in the city, and it also employs a very large number of highly intelligent, attractive people. I certainly haven't made the orchestra my basis for the society I'm in. I mean, I love them dearly, but we work together such a lot — I think they're glad to see the back of me at the end of the week as I am glad to see the back of them. I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course.

NUVO: And I understand you're driving now. You didn't start out driving, but you've told me you brought your car here … and you're racing everybody through the city streets.

LEPPARD: (laughs) Well, I haven't got caught yet.

NUVO: You've done a number of large-scale works as part of your subscription programming: Beethoven's Ninth a number of times, Daphnis et Chloe twice, The Dream of Gerontius twice and a number of others. Were there any other works of that type that you had wanted to do, but for some reason couldn't work it/them into a program?

LEPPARD: Oh sure. I can think of the Mozart C Minor Mass, [Benjamin] Britten's War Requiem — although I think the latter's probably too large a work for our hall. But the [Bach] B Minor Mass I would have liked to have done, and a number of others that could come to mind.

NUVO: What about the [Beethoven] Missa Solemnis?

LEPPARD: I would like to have done that, but, to be honest, it's such a taxing work for the choir. And I don't really believe that our choir is able to do it. It's really a fiendish work, and you need a high level of professionalism. (Contined from page 11)

It's a rewarding work in all respects, but there's no point in trying it, and failing.

NUVO: There have been a fairly sizeable number of replacements in player personnel since you've been here. Do you feel that, by itself, to be a significant contributor to the orchestra's present level of excellence? In other words, have we replaced the former players with better ones in general?

LEPPARD: Every time, I think. And as the orchestra's reputation grew, the applicants for positions also grew. We've had extraordinary numbers coming in for positions, so we've always managed to replace somebody who's left for one reason or another with a finer player.

NUVO: We've heard lots of guest conductors this year. Some of them have markedly changed the sound of the orchestra to their own concept — with just two days' rehearsal and two evening performances. Others seemed less able to take charge and bend the players to their will, which usually resulted in mediocre performances. When you played your first subscription concert here in the fall of ’87, the change was abrupt and dramatic — and certainly for the better. In a way, this goes against your described concept of needing time to build an orchestra "sound," patterned after what you want from it. Would you say that the short-term change has more to do with how you conduct rehearsals with "strangers," as it were — or as a guest conductor — than later, after you and the players are more like a family?

LEPPARD: Well, I think it's inevitable ... I think it's a process of fine-tuning. Not only that, but you have to inculcate a sense of style that they can reproduce — every time — with me. And with somebody else I think it's natural that they should respond in a different way. Musicians are remarkably flexible. And that's part of the interest in their playing — is to respond to somebody else's interpretation and somebody else's view of sound. When the guests come in it adds zest to the [player's] life. The thing about being with them a lot, which I've been over the past 14 years, is that they can quickly return to this thread, or style, of playing when I'm there. They can't do it so much when I'm not. And I don't doubt it'll change with whoever they come up with … and it should. I think that's perfectly correct. I wouldn't like to perpetuate much of what I've been doing — necessarily. Perhaps certain aspects of it — more in general terms: like intonation, balance and ensemble. That might last longer than anything else. But the sound is bound to change.

NUVO: Many performing musicians I've talked to have big record collections, but I don't have the impression that conductors do, so much.

LEPPARD: This conductor doesn't. I don't play records. I don't have a collection. I have some, of course, but they just happen to be there. And I think it's because there are other things of greater interest, like always learning scores or orchestrating songs — as I've just been doing for Flicka [Frederica von Stade], who's coming for our Christmas concert [the ISO's Classical Christmas, Leppard's first scheduled podium appearance as conductor laureate].

NUVO: So you don't have that much curiosity about how other conductors play works?

LEPPARD: None. Virtually none. I have a great interest in music I don't know, and never heard. That sort of record I would play, and do occasionally. But I'm not interested in other people's interpretations [of standard repertoire]. Except that I am curious about the guest conductors who've been coming here, and I do get out to hear them when I'm in town. Of course, I have no influence whatever in the selection, but I'm as curious as everybody else is.

NUVO: With the electronic enhancement to the Circle acoustics, I understand it makes it difficult for the players to hear each other during the performance. Do you deal with it during rehearsals?

LEPPARD: You can't deal with it very satisfactorily — only by reducing the total volume. The problem becomes more acute the louder the orchestra plays. And I'll tell you that quite a large chunk of the proposed $60 million in the new endowment is going towards a remodeling of the stage. Though the [present] enhancement may help the audience, it's the acoustics on-stage that we have really to concern ourselves with. It's very, very hard. Beyond a certain place, they always hear late — if they listen to the rest of the orchestra. And they tend to need to use their ears. And there are dead places on the stage. The acoustic on-stage is not good.

NUVO: What rewards do you see — aside from financial — of your future guest conducting, with the grind of going in and out of hotels, in and out of airplanes, from city to city, etc? Or will there be plenty of "space" to relax at home between some of your engagements?

LEPPARD: Yes. You've got it. It's exactly what you're saying is what I'm going to do. I'm 73 now; I don't want to work flat out. Whatever number of years I've got left, I want to enjoy. I'm only accepting engagements that I know or guess that I will enjoy. The traveling is a drawback; it's inevitable and concomitant with that way of life. But I'm certainly not going to work as hard as I used to.

NUVO: So we'd expect that you'd be spending a fair amount of your time here.
LEPPARD: No question. Absolutely. And don't forget I'm acting as honorary chairman for this new $60 million endowment appeal. I shall be working on behalf of the orchestra — unpaid, of course, but that's all right. I offered to do it to help Marianne [Tobias]; she's chairman of it.

NUVO: What do you see yourself doing after you've decided to back off on guest conducting in the coming years? Perhaps more writing?

LEPPARD: Yes, I have some writing ideas in my head. But one thing I'm looking forward to, which, because of the orchestra, I've been unable to accept, is doing some opera. If I can get back into the theater ... the opera takes such a long time. If you're going to do it well, you have to take four weeks' rehearsal, perhaps. And be there for most of it. I grew up in the theater, you see ... almost my main background — till I went into the symphony. Glyndebourne, Covent Garden ... all over the place.

NUVO: So many past symphony conductors you could name did begin their careers in the pit.

LEPPARD: That's the European method. And it would be a very sensible one for Americans. It's done nothing like as much over here. There are a very few places where a young person can start and work his way to associate conductor, then start taking rehearsals, then take over performances. That's the way you learn. All the European conductors learned it that way — I think without exception.

NUVO: In that connection, could you see yourself in the pit to guest conduct the Indianapolis Opera?

LEPPARD: I don't think so — because they never have enough rehearsal time. And I'm so used to doing opera with brilliant directors who cause the operas to grow under the music directors, the [set] designers and the stage directors. That's the practice at Glyndebourne, where you plan an opera more than a year ahead; you cast it together, and you decide on how you're going to do it together. That isn't the way, I'm afraid, Indianapolis — as yet — can make its opera work.

NUVO: Goeff Lapin [Words on Music host] once asked you teasingly if you could just relax by the pool with a glass of wine and a good book — and maybe smell the roses.

LEPPARD: Of course. I've just been "practicing" this last weekend — in between gardening.

taldridge@nuvo.net